Joined: May 2010 Gender: Male Posts: 829 Location: UK
Re: STUCK CSG « Thread Started on Mar 13, 2012, 7:50pm »
What size casing, what kind of hole, vertical or directional? Can you circulate? Have you got a top drive? Can you stab in and rotate the casing Did it hang up while running in or while making a connection? Did you get an increase in drag prior to getting stuck? Was your hole giving problems while drilling / tripping BHA? Any doglegs? Do you have freedom to change the mud weight in the annulus? What kind of mud are you using? Could you pump any kind of treatment such as detergent, fresh water, HCl?
The OCTG supplier should have provided all the operating limits for both the pipe and the connections. If you are using one of the big international suppliers they tend to have excellent web sites with all the documentation you would need, but it is a bit late now wondering about that, it is something that should have been established before the pipe was even shipped to the rig. Are you using a casing crew, they should know what they are dealing with.
Information or opinions are solely provided for educational and/or discussion purposes on an informal public forum and should not be interpreted as a recommendation for a specific treatment plan, course of action or product/ service. Use of any of this information does not replace consultations with individuals qualified in these respective fields.
Re: STUCK CSG « Reply #1 on Mar 13, 2012, 10:26pm »
"Are you really a Drilling Supervisor? "
I want to add something to Rebel Tool's comment, in the form of a further question to 'Meh'. That being, why do you have a picture of a big oilwell fire below your name?
Information or opinions are solely provided for educational and/or discussion purposes on an informal public forum and should not be interpreted as a recommendation for a specific treatment plan, course of action or product/ service. Use of any of this information does not replace consultations with qualified individuals in these respective fields.
Joined: May 2003 Gender: Male Posts: 2,132 Location: Sarawak Malaysia
Re: STUCK CSG « Reply #2 on Mar 13, 2012, 11:19pm »
This guy needs more than 'help'. We are ALL willing to assist in finding a solution.
Sounds like he needs somone to do his job for him. This is the trend today with the 'newer' inexperienced 'supervisors' who may be education trained, without 'practical' experience in whatever they were trained as.
Re: STUCK CSG « Reply #3 on Mar 14, 2012, 4:18am »
Common Kiwoil, surely you must have realized this has been "entry level" for quite a while, no prior oil field experience needed ! Whoever works as the No.2 ..or NDSv will have to do 2 peoples work, get double experience and burn out twice as fast. Some superintendents can't even do basic arithmetic..let alone maths...the mind boggles. No worries...Yahoo instant messenger to the rescue.
Information or opinions are solely provided for educational and/or discussion purposes on an informal public forum and should not be interpreted as a recommendation for a specific treatment plan, course of action or product/ service. Use of any of this information does not replace consultations with qualified individuals in these respective fields.
msalehi62 Guest
Re: STUCK CSG « Reply #4 on Mar 14, 2012, 5:24am »
Dear All, thanks for insults ans some nonsense talks
yes i am a drilling supervisor. i never got stucked while running casing and never will as well.
Re: STUCK CSG « Reply #5 on Mar 14, 2012, 9:13am »
Do not worry buddy and do note care about what else think about you? everybody should start to ask to know more, in particular in a site that is designed for this purpose
everybody should start to ask to know more, in particular in a site that is designed for this purpose
Some of us have been having an offline conversation about this. I can't speak for anyone else, but I can't help agree with the comment " everybody should start to ask to know more, in particular in a site that is designed for this purpose"
That as I see it is the fundamental reason for the existence of Driller's Club. Tell me if I am wrong Leonard.
The thing is, personally I am more than happy to help people learn about the business and benefit from my experience, just as I have picked up valuable info and tips from people throughout my career. That is why I am more than happy to answer a "simple" question, politely put, about tong posts. It was a genuine request from someone new to the business and who had obviously been doing some reading and came across something that they didn't understand and publicly asked for an explanation. That is no problem at all, and well done for asking it.
That is a whole lot different to someone who says that they are a Drilling Supervisor asking about what to do if casing gets stuck and what is a bridge plug. That is nightmare country!! A few of us have observed that there seems to be a trend of questions being asked by so called DSVs and Toolpushers which, to be honest, are really scary.
I hope that it is actually a bunch of students looking for help with their homework and not really people responsible for the lives of rig crew and millions of dollars worth of equipment.
« Last Edit: Mar 14, 2012, 10:44am by Rebel Tool »
Information or opinions are solely provided for educational and/or discussion purposes on an informal public forum and should not be interpreted as a recommendation for a specific treatment plan, course of action or product/ service. Use of any of this information does not replace consultations with individuals qualified in these respective fields.
Joined: Dec 2011 Gender: Male Posts: 228 Location: Alberta
Re: STUCK CSG « Reply #8 on Mar 14, 2012, 11:42am »
In Canada we just had a rig catch fire & is burning as I write this right now. No one was hurt but It did happen & I wonder how competent the crews & personnel were. In this time around this area we are crying for experienced hands and we just don't have them. I dream of being a drill site manager but have been in the field long enough to know that the whole "fake it till you make it" does not apply especially when it comes to other peoples lives. That's why I appreciate your patience with me & thank you for all your advice / knowledge. My goal will be reached but it will be when I am ready & feel confident that I can make the right choices (or phone calls ha ha) with knowledge & experience to back them. It would be a nightmare in my eyes if a problem occured & I had to wait for a forum response lol.
Dear All, thanks for insults ans some nonsense talks
yes i am a drilling supervisor. i never got stucked while running casing and never will as well.
seems you can not give the percise answers )
First of all none one here in his right mind will dare claim ability to give you a "precise answer" as this would be a dangerous let alone stupid thing to do. We can point the way but don't expect us to hold your hand.
The intelligent thing to do on your part would be to provide data as per Rebel Tool's request" which you seem to have totally ignored or possibly don't understand. His request for more data was only for basic stuff.
What size casing, what kind of hole, vertical or directional? Can you circulate? Have you got a top drive? Can you stab in and rotate the casing Did it hang up while running in or while making a connection? Did you get an increase in drag prior to getting stuck? Was your hole giving problems while drilling / tripping BHA? Any doglegs? Do you have freedom to change the mud weight in the annulus? What kind of mud are you using? Could you pump any kind of treatment such as detergent, fresh water, HCl?
It seems you are unable to provide this simple information but you dare accuse us of being unable to provide you with precise data. Not very smart !
Do you have the ability to put yourself in the position of the persons you are asking for help ? or do you assume they all have well developed abilities in ESP ?
I have nearly 30 yr field experience and started off at the bottom of the ladder but I still don't know everything. Given another 20 yr I'll know a lot more and still won't know everything....and I still don't dare shoulder the responsibilities of a Drilling Supervisor because lucky for me I got to work with some genuinely qualified, tough and experienced Supervisors. You are very brave in saying that you will never get stuck. Me ?...I'm a coward and when I see rigs manned with dumb supervisors I 'd turn tail because I'd like to go home in one piece to my family and friends. Beats ending up as burnt offerings.
Please furnish us with as much information as possible so as we may be able to give you a better answer. A question with vague details will naturally be given a fuzzy answer at best. This is basic common sense a person in your position should realize. How on Earth did you get to become a Drilling Supervisor if you don't realize this ? You're not alone and the number of drilling supervisors of similar caliber is increasing at a logarithmic rate. God help the men and women that work under their supervision.
Information or opinions are solely provided for educational and/or discussion purposes on an informal public forum and should not be interpreted as a recommendation for a specific treatment plan, course of action or product/ service. Use of any of this information does not replace consultations with qualified individuals in these respective fields.
Dear All, thanks for insults ans some nonsense talks
yes i am a drilling supervisor. i never got stucked while running casing and never will as well.
seems you can not give the percise answers )
If you're 'never' going to get stuck while running casing, what's the purpose of your original question (which seems to have mysteriously disappeared) asking how to get unstuck?
As others have said, you really didn't provide enough data, and anyway it's not a situation which can be solved at a distance usually. You have to be on the rigfloor to find a solution.
However there is one piece of advice I would unhesitatingly give regarding stuck casing. That being, prevention is always better than cure. Nine times out of ten, casing gets stuck because of corners being cut when the borehole was being drilled, or that the condition of the hole was misinterpreted, or that it wasn't properly cleaned prior to the casing run. Casing doesn't 'just get stuck' without there being a reason. Identify that reason and you'll probably avoid the problem recurring (though of course that may not help in the ongoing situation).
An example: just last year I turned up on a new job three days after the casing had got stuck and was cemented higher than planned. This resulted in considerable difficulties and expense as drilling continued further. That was a case of unwise well design for the casing and its ancilleries which was run, compounded with poor drilling practices and attempting to hurry things, further compounded by having very inexperienced people out in the field. Now I'm not God's Gift to the Oilpatch, but the causes were blatently obvious to me, so for the following well I made sure the engineering department reviewed the design, and modified the program accordingly. Also, much against my natural desires, I 'micro-managed' the drilling of that section closely on the following well. Result? No repetition of the problem.
And while on the subject. One must bear in mind that there are limitations to everything: casing strength, rig capacity, and so on. But if casing becomes 'stuck' and you have inexperienced people out on the job, they generally have a reluctance to 'get rough with it', which is frequently the only way to get the string moving again. The only thing not to get rough with is circulation, assuming you can circulate. With stuck casing, if you start pumping like crazy, the odds are you'll make things worse rather than better.
Information or opinions are solely provided for educational and/or discussion purposes on an informal public forum and should not be interpreted as a recommendation for a specific treatment plan, course of action or product/ service. Use of any of this information does not replace consultations with qualified individuals in these respective fields.
Joined: May 2010 Gender: Male Posts: 829 Location: UK
Re: STUCK CSG « Reply #11 on Mar 14, 2012, 12:43pm »
I think that he has gone....
Can I please emphasise? If anyone has been put off asking a question, don't be, we are all here to gain the benefits of other's wisdom. I have certainly learned a hell of a lot while I have been a member of Driller's Club for the last couple of years. Something that I am very grateful for.
The old saying about there is no such thing as a stupid question is still as true now as it ever was, the thing is there are such things as stupid people.
There is a whole world of difference between being stupid and being inexperienced, uneducated or just unaccustomed, we all fit into those categories.
I wouldn't like to think that what has been exchanged in a few posts over the last day or so would put anybody off asking for help. Just as PJ says, supply as much detail as you can and you may be amazed at what detail you get back. If one of those details is "I'm new to this game" fine, that lets people know that what you are looking for is not to include lots of terminology and mnemonics and jargon.
Information or opinions are solely provided for educational and/or discussion purposes on an informal public forum and should not be interpreted as a recommendation for a specific treatment plan, course of action or product/ service. Use of any of this information does not replace consultations with individuals qualified in these respective fields.
Joined: Jan 2012 Gender: Male Posts: 11 Location: algeria
Re: STUCK CSG « Reply #12 on Mar 14, 2012, 1:07pm »
Hello everybody , I have been reading the question that the gentle man asked, and the nice answers and comments that everybody posted, I clearly notice that the topic tittle should bechanged , How To Ask Questions ? instead of STUCK CSG It could be simplier if we asked the guy about the missing informations , or to give him a general answers and information, for this reason , I beg you my friends, 1- try to be as clear as you can in asking your questions 2- try to help each other , if not not with good answers and theories, do it with saying nothing 3-try to be more nice to each other, because whatever you know, there is someone who knows more then you , and you don’t want him to tell you that you are ………….. 4-many many thanks for your help
Re: STUCK CSG « Reply #13 on Mar 14, 2012, 2:14pm »
Dear friends
I am confused about the topics, but here is my idea
if the casing got stuck due to hole problem, one can try pumping with overpull.
maximum overpull can be determined by
(pipe or coupling yeild, which is less)/(overpull+csg weight in air)
which shoould be no less than 1.3 (of course i read it in a book) is that right?
the other step is to spot some pipe free agents, then wait and try again then after
if the csg is near csg point, maybe its ok to cement it and leave it there. but what if it get stuck far from setting depth? what other measures can be taken?
however this discussion is a great opportunity for me to learn.
I am confused about the topics, but here is my idea
if the casing got stuck due to hole problem, one can try pumping with overpull.
maximum overpull can be determined by
(pipe or coupling yeild, which is less)/(overpull+csg weight in air)
which shoould be no less than 1.3 (of course i read it in a book) is that right?
the other step is to spot some pipe free agents, then wait and try again then after
if the csg is near csg point, maybe its ok to cement it and leave it there. but what if it get stuck far from setting depth? what other measures can be taken?
however this discussion is a great opportunity for me to learn.
begginer,
You seem to have a grasp of some principles, but it's not so easy as that.
Sometimes overpull is dictated by the rig, and not the pipe. For instance if you get 9 5/8" casing hung up when you're on a fully cantilevered-out jackup. You have to know the limitations of the equipment.
Also, my own rule of thumb is that circulation should be a solution of last recourse, and then should be employed with caution, especially if soft formations are involved. But if you're in medium or hard formations, you might be able to circulate easily, but maybe it won't help at all. You might be hanging up on a ledge, or the hole geometry is bad due to having been drilled too fast. At which point you may have to 'get rough with it'. But bearing in mind that you don't want to risk breaking up your centralisers, which can make your problem get a lot worse very quickly.
And it mustn't be forgotten that your pipe yield strength (in the book) is affected by pressures due to circulation.
And it must also be remembered that the idea with casing is to get it to bottom, not to pull it back out of the hole (unless absolutely necessary). So you may have to yo-yo it some, but it's only if it will start moving downwards again that you can consider you're making progress.
There's no simple answer here, it all depends on circumstances. And this is why some contributors (myself included) replied fairly harshly to the original questioner. If oilwell drilling was easy, and if answers to all problems could be learned from a book, or from a site like this, anyone would be doing it, and people of my age would have been forcibly retired years ago.
Information or opinions are solely provided for educational and/or discussion purposes on an informal public forum and should not be interpreted as a recommendation for a specific treatment plan, course of action or product/ service. Use of any of this information does not replace consultations with qualified individuals in these respective fields.
................And it mustn't be forgotten that your pipe yield strength (in the book) is affected by pressures due to circulation...............
AK
Hi AK,
I suspected this but never knew for sure all these years because I thought the effect would be negligible given other forces such as suspended weight and buoyancy at play.
Any chance you could tell us a bit more about the mechanism for a vertical and even horizontal well ?
WOuld the yield strength be affected more by circulation down and inside the casing than up via the CSG vs OH annular space ?
Is there a way, tables or formula to figure out or quantify this effect of circulation pressures on yield strength ?
I would venture to guess (not good thing to do) that the net effect of circulation down vs circulation up, would be a further stretching of the casing in addition to suspended weight even with counteracting of force due to buoyancy, seeing that the csg capacity is greater than the annular capacity.
Information or opinions are solely provided for educational and/or discussion purposes on an informal public forum and should not be interpreted as a recommendation for a specific treatment plan, course of action or product/ service. Use of any of this information does not replace consultations with qualified individuals in these respective fields.
Re: STUCK CSG « Reply #16 on Mar 17, 2012, 10:51am »
PJ,
Sorry for the delay. I was travelling when I read your last questions, and wanted to get home and check in a few books before replying.
I'm afraid I have no quantitative answers, and the books didn't help either! However my understanding has always been that applied internal pressure decreases the pipe and connection tensile yield strength. This applies to drillstring tubulars as well, not just casing. I am unsure as to whether this refers to the metalurgical or geometrical properties of the pipe, or simply how much you can pull as read on the weight indicator, but in practical terms, the result is the same.
It would be interesting if someone with better engineering knowledge than I can come up with a more detailed explanation.
Information or opinions are solely provided for educational and/or discussion purposes on an informal public forum and should not be interpreted as a recommendation for a specific treatment plan, course of action or product/ service. Use of any of this information does not replace consultations with qualified individuals in these respective fields.
Re: STUCK CSG « Reply #17 on Mar 17, 2012, 11:20am »
No worries AK,
I think the way to go would be to observe static vs dynamic string wt and take it from there. Like lots of other recent questions, we have to be mindful that an empirical approach is more practical unless someone is writing good software.
Information or opinions are solely provided for educational and/or discussion purposes on an informal public forum and should not be interpreted as a recommendation for a specific treatment plan, course of action or product/ service. Use of any of this information does not replace consultations with qualified individuals in these respective fields.
Re: STUCK CSG « Reply #18 on Mar 19, 2012, 2:38pm »
I'm at a bit of a loose end today, so idly trawling around the internet, including this site and this particular thread. And my mind went back to the late eighties, when I was working in the Adriatic, offshore Italy. Kelly rig, no topdrive.
Soft formations, and frequent problems getting the 13 3/8" casing to bottom.
Now I'm going to be politically incorrect here, and explain what we did, though it'll have the HSE people going apoplectic.
Someone goes up in a riding belt (politically incorrect) with a length of stout chain (dropped-object hazard: politically incorrect). Ties the chain through the elevator links (bails) so it is resting over the top of the casing. Then (once the guy in the belt has come down and is out of the way) the driller very carefully slacks off, so that the weight of the travelling blocks is pushing down on the casing, as well.
Usually worked like a charm. And not just in Italy, either. Works even better with a topdrive rig, because you've got more weight to play with. But that means the guy in the (politically incorrect) riding belt has to take some yet heavier-duty (politically incorrect) chain with him!
Information or opinions are solely provided for educational and/or discussion purposes on an informal public forum and should not be interpreted as a recommendation for a specific treatment plan, course of action or product/ service. Use of any of this information does not replace consultations with qualified individuals in these respective fields.
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